[Nix]

I will be doing a full overhaul once my other car sells but I'm really lost as to which direction to go with coilover choice.

I mainly do hills runs which at the extreme means off-camber slippery, bumpy surfaces. So I'm looking for something maybe a bit more adjustable than the regular track style setup.

I know George has had success with his BCs has anyone else got some input please.

Nick.

[ultra_supra]

now split off as a separate topic

[RZ TT 94]

Does your car have the upgraded stock suspension? ie. are the dampers yellow?

If so then it may be more cost effective to rebuild the stock items because from all accounts when these are in good nick they are good bang for buck.

Which leads me to another point, who in SA would be best to rebuild these dampers for us, not sure if pedders or the like can.

[TheOldFart]

RZ TT 94, on Jan 8 2008, 11:58 PM, said:

Does your car have the upgraded stock suspension? ie. are the dampers yellow?

If so then it may be more cost effective to rebuild the stock items because from all accounts when these are in good nick they are good bang for buck.

Which leads me to another point, who in SA would be best to rebuild these dampers for us, not sure if pedders or the like can.

Car Torque in Kent Town. If they're the Bilstein shocks (yellow) then the cost will be around $150 a corner for a rebuild or about $250 brand new. They are also agents for Super Pro bushes.

Tein Super Streets are about $1850 and if you add in the EDFC gear that's about another $350. EDFC would be nice but for me it's probably more of a gimmick. I'm in the process of getting a price from MVP to keep Australian pricing honest.

There is also D2 and there is a seller who regularly appears on Ebay with complete coilovers for $1185 incl freight. Here is one of the ads.

D2 Coilovers

This is one direction I'm thinking of going in because it appears to be a major gain for me compared to rebuilding Bilsteins. I don't have a price on new springs so you need to add that onto the $600 for a Bilstein rebuild and you could probably get $200-300 when you sell the original set. I'm sure there is someone out there willing to buy an original set.


:cheers:
TOF

[Reaper]

And the big question - what's your budget for this Nick?

Also, errr... tracky coilovers are highly adjustable eg. height, preload, compression, rebound etc.
Not sure what you meant when you said you need even more adjustment than this ?? What other adjustments are you after beyond these?

If you pay enough you can have remote reservoirs, separate bump/rebound control, aluminium bodies, pillow ball mounts, custom valve stacks, the list goes on...

[ultra_supra]

ditto re what Reaper has said.

my suspension (Zeal FunctionX coilovers) is setup for track work and has plenty of adjustability (all those mentioned above) - more than one would need for street/Hills driving.

i didn't go for the full race setup with remote oil reservoirs (Zeal Super Function) as that was overkill and the spring rates were too high (22/16)

perhaps what you're meaning is that track style suspension is too stiff for street/Hills driving. adjustability is separate consideration.

[Nix]

Sorry about that I didn't mean to take over the other thread it just seemed to make sense since it was named jza80 suspension :)

I was meaning damper adjustability. I'm not racing the car and won't be changing setup too often so height/damper are all I'm worried about to start with at least. While the bilsteins are fairly impressive a rebulit/new set is not an option unless I was to buy the spring mount kit and make them height adjustable - don't really have time for that project atm.

Fortunately I don't really have a budget but I'm sceptical about the low range options. Everyone seems to go the tein SS but I don't think it's a coincidence they're one of if not the cheapest adjustable options out there.

I'm just looking for a good all round setup but was worried about running too stiff on the dodgy surfaces.

Cheers,

Nick.

[ultra_supra]

nah, it made sense to split this topic off as the other one was mainly about replacing bushes and control arms, not so much aftermarket coilover choice


height and damper settings are usually all that you are able to adjust with most coilovers unlesss you're playing with a full race setup

entry level type coilovers will only allow you to adjust the height by compressing the spring. the better coilovers will allow you to adjust height by compressing the spring and/or by shortening the body. the further up the coilover range you go, the higher the spring rates will be, so it is less likely that you'd want to change the spring rate by compressing it, thus you would want to adjust height only by winding the shock body up/down.


Tein SuperStreets are actually quite good, but may seem to be at the lower end of the 'good' coilover range (you can pay over $5,000 for a set of coilovers). the rest of the Tein range isn't readily available in Australia but are nice items if you can get them. the cheaper options (HSD, D2, G4, Racing Logic, etc) are Taiwanese/Korean/Chinese copies of the well known coilover manufacturers items (Tein, HKS, Cusco, Endless/ZEAL) and aren't too bad for the money. however, the old adage of "you get what you pay for" remains true. how smooth the low range options are and how long they last for is certainly variable - best to see what other people have experienced with them on NS.com (some have complained of cracking, leaks, etc).

what to look for: monotube design, aluminium bodies, lightweight pillow tops, easy access to settings, etc.

there's not a lot in damper adjustability (6-way vs 14-way vs 30-way). more does not necessarily mean better. you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between step 27 and 28 on a 30-click system, whereas you'd notice step 18 to 24 which is really the same as step 4 to 5 on a 6-way. you'd only benefit from that many fine adjustments if you were totally in tune with your suspension setup on a racetrack.

in terms of spring rates, you don't need more than 16/12 (16kg/mm front 12kg/mm rear) or 18/12 for a JZA80 Supra. as you've already mentioned, higher spring rates are too stiff for street/Hills driving (due to the less than ideal condition of our roads) and will lead to skipping which = accident. anyone who uses 22/16 coilovers here is just plain stupid. i would only use that sort of spring rate on a perfectly smooth and well maintained racetrack (which Mallala and other Australian circuits aren't). plus the reality is that you're not going to be changing your dampening rates very often after initial setup.

personally, i would recommend looking at the JDM range of manufacturers (Tein, HKS, Cusco and ZEAL) for a decent set. this link may be useful too: Cusco coilover adjustment

hope that this helps. a few of us have spent quite a bit of time looking into this topic so would be glad to help others out there. if it's useful, i am one of the official resellers (through Sinergy Motorsports) for Endless ZEAL suspension here in Australia.

.

[TheOldFart]

Prices in....

Tein SS plus pillow ball mounts - $1800-1900. Us landed prices a little better but basically the same.
EDFC - $550
D2 - $1185 freighted to your door from NZ (the Ebay guy) or $1499 from the Australian distributor. I'll confirm warranty from the NZ guy before buying.

:cheers:
TOF

[ultra_supra]

essay rewritten above. enjoy

[TheOldFart]

So...what price am I looking for, for a set of Zeal's suitable for street use?

:cheers:
TOF

[Nix]

Thanks for the effort ultra but I was more looking for personal experience than the spiel general knowledge that you posted (no offense, some will find it very useful).

It seems the active member base on these forums is much smaller than I assumed though so I think I'll migrate over to sf.com for this topic.

Thanks for your input people.

[Yiros]

I recently sold my Aussie spec Tein SS to Merc. They were fantastic for the price I paid.

I upgraded my coil overs to the HKS Hypermax Performers. These are rare and not too many people run them.

The HKS Performers have 30 Way damper adjustment (compared with 16 way) and the height an be adjusted without compressing the spring (unlike the Tein SS).

I spent weeks tweaking and fine tuning the HKS and found the perfect setup for street and track. I have found the idela height and spring compression and these won’t change.

The HKS have a softer spring rate than the Tein SS but since the HKS dampening quality is superior, the HKS are much more stable at highway speeds even on a softer setting.

Having said all that, the HKS are over double the price of the Teins.

You can buy the HKS Hypermax IIIs for about $1800. Not sure how they compare as I have never driven a car with them on. So form my personal experience, I prefer my HKS Hypermax Performers over the Tein SS.

[ultra_supra]

Nix - yep, a lot of that info was also meant for our other members, but is based on experience and considered opinion. so what sort of personal experiences are you after? perhaps Andy has answered that bit now. there *is* quite a bit of knowledge here... it's just easier to ask in person (beer helps here :D ) as it takes too long for us to type it up most of the time.

ToF - will need to check 2008 pricing for you, Tony.

[Darren]

Pop up some prices Kim as others here are probably interested as well in some Zeal's.

Cheers
Darren

[Nix]

Yeah sorry, I'm pretty crap at converting brain to writing.

Looking for personal input like yiros has just given on experiences with certain brands. Also was interested in how setup wise ppl have comprimised from the ultra stiff track setup for our shit roads with these Jap coilovers - regassing shocks, setup changes etc.

Eg. I had Tein SS, they were shit, my hypermaxes are 50 bajillion^10 better ... sorry yiros did you get II's or III's?

[PK]

I used Tein SS when I had my Supra.

Although no basis for comparison, I was very happy with them, for what I used them for (everyday street driving).

Cost me less than what Andy paid (thank you E-Bay!) :)

PK

[Yiros]

The Teins were much better than warn stockies but obviously not as good as my HKS that cost over double. On the hardest setting, I didn't notice too much improvement at Mallala but the HKS are much better on the street with softer springs packaged up with with braces and upgraded sway bars.

I have neither the II's or III's. I have the Hypermax Performers (mucher dearer than the III's). For example, Hardy landed his HKS Hypermax III's for about $1900. I landed a pair of replacement rear dampers only (no springs or pillow mounts) for $1450 a month or two earlier. Locally the Performers retail for $3,500 but you should be able to land a set for $3100-$3200.

Kim's Zeal coil overs are in this sort of price range. Kim and I have had many discussions talking about our various setups etc.

PK did buy his Teins cheaper, but mine had the TT spring rate (heavier spring rate than the NA) and were the Aussie spec. I generally ran mine on a lower setting than PK and still had a firmer ride due to the firmer springs.

The Aussie Spec Teins have been modified to suit our roads so if you had the overseas version, that may explain why you didn’t like them.

[Reaper]

My Tein SS's were ordered from Japan with custom spring rates that emulated the HKS drags ie. 10/6 kg front/rear split.
My car was a daily before it became the beast it is today.

For regular street use these were nice and comfy yet still able to provide good control on track days but bearing in mind I use f/r swaybars to add more body roll control.

The units are neat, cheap, well made, simple to use with integrated bump/rebound.
I think they've been good value for money. Mine have not leaked and I'm under the car all the time so I would have noticed.

Only gripe was that in the early days the collars used to drop their tension but now the coilovers are more gunged up they seem to stick better ie. there is so much dirt on the outer threaded body the collars are more stuck.
If I had my time again I may have popped the springs and done some drilling to support lock wiring. This would have made Regency happy too no doubt as that is a criticism from some of them about coilovers.

Would I have bought a higher spec set in hindsight - no - they've been quite adequate and performed very well for the money. They've proven themselves to be quite durable in the face of many savage beatings - I'm a hills dweller so many runs have been had not to mention Mallala track days.

I prefer to allocate fiscal resources to more POWAH!!

Tein SS have been good economy for me.

Would I like to have had something better - yes, necessary - not so much.
BUT... now that my car is not daily I would have gone with higher spring rates but I didn't have a spare car back then.

Cheers Nick, good luck in your quest sir! And if you ever want a hills run buddy hit me up, I'm southern hills though but.

Ciao,
GEE :cheers:

[TheOldFart]

Reaper, on Jan 17 2008, 07:25 AM, said:

My Tein SS's were ordered from Japan with custom spring rates that emulated the HKS drags ie. 10/6 kg front/rear split.
My car was a daily before it became the beast it is today.

For regular street use these were nice and comfy yet still able to provide good control on track days but bearing in mind I use f/r swaybars to add more body roll control.

The units are neat, cheap, well made, simple to use with integrated bump/rebound.
I think they've been good value for money. Mine have not leaked and I'm under the car all the time so I would have noticed.

Only gripe was that in the early days the collars used to drop their tension but now the coilovers are more gunged up they seem to stick better ie. there is so much dirt on the outer threaded body the collars are more stuck.
If I had my time again I may have popped the springs and done some drilling to support lock wiring. This would have made Regency happy too no doubt as that is a criticism from some of them about coilovers.

Would I have bought a higher spec set in hindsight - no - they've been quite adequate and performed very well for the money. They've proven themselves to be quite durable in the face of many savage beatings - I'm a hills dweller so many runs have been had not to mention Mallala track days.

I prefer to allocate fiscal resources to more POWAH!!

Tein SS have been good economy for me.

Would I like to have had something better - yes, necessary - not so much.
BUT... now that my car is not daily I would have gone with higher spring rates but I didn't have a spare car back then.

Cheers Nick, good luck in your quest sir! And if you ever want a hills run buddy hit me up, I'm southern hills though but.

Ciao,
GEE :cheers:

I'm learning something new all the time :( .

What do you mean by "...some drilling to support lock wiring..."

I guess this just manages to show up my semi-bogan background!

:cheers:
TOF