[TheOldFart]

I'm looking for your experiences.

I've started to look at the car's suspension and whilst I have no need to go after market coilovers I do want to rebuild/re-bush where appropriate. The car has 165k on the clock so I would expect that the suspension is perhaps a little tired.

I've read enough articles on the National and US forums to realize that there are issues with re-bushing vs. replacing upper/lower suspension arms. If I assume that the ball joints are ok for the moment, I'd like to head down the direction of re-bushing everything together with a set of front and rear strut bars.

I'm not too concerned about brand although I would like to purchase the Carbing front strut as this is the only one on the market that offers integral brake master cylinder support. Is there anyone in Australia stocking these?

I've had a talk to Pedders and they produce a complete urethane kit for the MkIV. Has anyone got any 1st hand experience with the Pedder's product? It would either be Pedders or MVP Motor Sports unless someone knows of another supplier.

Any ideas, thoughts etc. would be great.

The car is carrying a set of original Bilsteins and barring any unforeseen findings, I'll be keeping these.

:cheers:
TOF

[bAss]

I went Super Pro on the front section of mine, replaced everything that had a bush on it, and the rear is half Nolathane and half Super pro.

Super pro bushes are actually the best ones to use due to them being out of mix of rubber and urethane so they are not as harsh as a full polyurethane bush while still making the car bloody stiff.

A lot of people have commented on how smooth my ride is even with the super stiff 18kg front and 12kg rear coilovers. You literally cannot push the car down and there is no bounce when u try to bounce the car, but yet driveability and handling is superb but you dont actually feel the stiffness of the car.

Its hard to explain, when i get it back on the road i can take you for a drive if you like.

[Reaper]

Hey Tone,

Your Bilsteins will be quite tired by now, probably not rebuildable? (anyone tried?), and the springs somewhat saggy.

My advice would be to replace these babies. When I used to race sportsbikes around the hills I would rebuild my rear shock every year to keep it fresh and refill my forks every year also. You can imagine how tired your shocks are by comparison then can't you?

Strut bars improve turn in = great.
Sway bars are designed to reduce body roll but still allow fairly comfortable spring rates on street cars ie. they help control dynamic caster in cornering thereby meaning you can run softer springs for comfort otherwise eg. straights/cruising along.

Now... problem is stb's/ and swaybars won't make up for shot shockers.

You may find you have improved steering response, and even better lateral grip since you are less likely to roll off the tyres edge with the swaybars BUT if your shocks are rooted you'll still have issues with compression and rebound damping ie. you'll be bouncing all over the place regardless of whether you're in a turn or not.

I think at that age you should seriously consider doing the shocks probably first actually.

Strut braces are handy but less critical on your hardtop.

Sway bars will be nice too and tuneable to a limited extent if blade adjustable BUT the Supra still faces some challenges in the handling dept (eg. relatively low front caster by today's std's ~3 degrees vs. ~9!).

You will get more benefit from doing the shocks first IMO. Your suggested mods won't make up for potentially stuffed shocks ie. shocks are still the fundamental control mechanism.

On the bushes - I replaced mine with the R2 Racing bushes that are graphite impregnated to reduce squealing. They also cured my slow speed clicking problems which is quite common on aged MkIV's. Dusty from MVP sent mine out years ago for about 700AUD landed? You're aware the pure nolathane can squeak after the grease comes out of them? My Whiteline swaybars now squeak for this reason so they are due for a lube job as of about 6mths ago!

Putting bushes in is a biatch as they are metal housed, needs a mother press, much more than just normal workshop press. Access is a problem too, I had to take mine to a proper engineering firm to have the front lowers popped in/out. Labour costs are quite high for the bushes = 500 min.

No off the shelf solution for balljoints I currently know of short of new Toyo control arms which = mega dollars.

Cheers mate, good luck with it all.

GEE

PS- Pedders are a franchise so you may find the normal levels of experience and training are errrr... potentially low (eg. the guy coulda gone Baker's Delight just as easily - see what I mean?). Apparently some Pedders guys are ok but hit and miss. I personally avoid them like the plague myself and prefer the company of industry professionals who have been doing it for years. This way you don't have some 16 year old underpaid technician working on the weapon.

[TheOldFart]

adelaideprosound, on Jan 3 2008, 02:53 PM, said:

I went Super Pro on the front section of mine, replaced everything that had a bush on it, and the rear is half Nolathane and half Super pro.

Super pro bushes are actually the best ones to use due to them being out of mix of rubber and urethane so they are not as harsh as a full polyurethane bush while still making the car bloody stiff.

A lot of people have commented on how smooth my ride is even with the super stiff 18kg front and 12kg rear coilovers. You literally cannot push the car down and there is no bounce when u try to bounce the car, but yet driveability and handling is superb but you dont actually feel the stiffness of the car.

Its hard to explain, when i get it back on the road i can take you for a drive if you like.

After taking another look at both Pedders and Nolathane I've found that they don't make full kits (or at least don't document their product fully on their websites). For some reason, they've decided not to make bushes for the front upper control arm. Strange!

Looks like it's either R2 or Super Pro and I'm leaning towards Super Pro. Thanks George.

:cheers:
TOF

[TheOldFart]

Reaper, on Jan 4 2008, 07:24 AM, said:

Hey Tone,

Your Bilsteins will be quite tired by now, probably not rebuildable? (anyone tried?), and the springs somewhat saggy.

My advice would be to replace these babies. When I used to race sportsbikes around the hills I would rebuild my rear shock every year to keep it fresh and refill my forks every year also. You can imagine how tired your shocks are by comparison then can't you?

Strut bars improve turn in = great.
Sway bars are designed to reduce body roll but still allow fairly comfortable spring rates on street cars ie. they help control dynamic caster in cornering thereby meaning you can run softer springs for comfort otherwise eg. straights/cruising along.

Now... problem is stb's/ and swaybars won't make up for shot shockers.

You may find you have improved steering response, and even better lateral grip since you are less likely to roll off the tyres edge with the swaybars BUT if your shocks are rooted you'll still have issues with compression and rebound damping ie. you'll be bouncing all over the place regardless of whether you're in a turn or not.

I think at that age you should seriously consider doing the shocks probably first actually.

Strut braces are handy but less critical on your hardtop.

Sway bars will be nice too and tuneable to a limited extent if blade adjustable BUT the Supra still faces some challenges in the handling dept (eg. relatively low front caster by today's std's ~3 degrees vs. ~9!).

You will get more benefit from doing the shocks first IMO. Your suggested mods won't make up for potentially stuffed shocks ie. shocks are still the fundamental control mechanism.

On the bushes - I replaced mine with the R2 Racing bushes that are graphite impregnated to reduce squealing. They also cured my slow speed clicking problems which is quite common on aged MkIV's. Dusty from MVP sent mine out years ago for about 700AUD landed? You're aware the pure nolathane can squeak after the grease comes out of them? My Whiteline swaybars now squeak for this reason so they are due for a lube job as of about 6mths ago!

Putting bushes in is a biatch as they are metal housed, needs a mother press, much more than just normal workshop press. Access is a problem too, I had to take mine to a proper engineering firm to have the front lowers popped in/out. Labour costs are quite high for the bushes = 500 min.

No off the shelf solution for balljoints I currently know of short of new Toyo control arms which = mega dollars.

Cheers mate, good luck with it all.

GEE

PS- Pedders are a franchise so you may find the normal levels of experience and training are errrr... potentially low (eg. the guy coulda gone Baker's Delight just as easily - see what I mean?). Apparently some Pedders guys are ok but hit and miss. I personally avoid them like the plague myself and prefer the company of industry professionals who have been doing it for years. This way you don't have some 16 year old underpaid technician working on the weapon.

First up, I agree with you. :(

I'm not ignoring the shockies & springs just hoping for the best and hoping that i might be able to ignore them for the moment. I can't vouch for the car's treatment prior to my ownership but for the last 4 years it has had a very quiet life. My initial impression on the Bilsteins & springs is good. Bilsteins can be rebuilt but I need to price a rebuild compared to new. They look ok and there are no leaks. A good start at least. The springs I don't know about at the moment but I certainly didn't experience any funnies with the suspension over the last 4 years that alerted me to shock/spring problems. Granted I don't know what a new suspension is like either. :D

I'll stick with the existing swaybars for the moment and probably put the strut bars into the nice to have over the short-term. I'll take the front swaybar off tomorrow morning so I can measure everything up and order bushes.

I've spent the last 2 days (off and on) getting the right upper control arm off of the car. The bolt securing the control arm to the front crossmember was bent. I have always suspected a front ender on this car and this is another thing to confirm it. Luckily it was bent towards the rear of the bolt so it proved to be an easy fix once I had cut off the head of the bolt and pushed the bolt back through the crossmember. I'm expecting the other side to be a lot easier.

I read somewhere that a Bilstein rebuild costs around $100-150 per shock. I don't know how much springs will be, so......has anyone had any experience with D2 as a suspension manufacturer otherwise I'll price a set of Teins for comparison.

Well...the rest of the week will be occupied with removing slate from the kitchen/family rooms. I don't think I'll get away with anymore car related work until next weekend. :whip:

:cheers:
TOF

[Reaper]

No worries Tone, I understand the strategic approach you are taking. If you're gonna wanna end up with bars and braces anyway why not use them for a wee while to get out of jail.

Cool mate, good luck with it all. Shame to hear about the bent bolt and what it means.

Cya mate,
GEE :cheers:

[TheOldFart]

Has anyone found a supply of replacement rubber booties for the control arm ball joints?

:cheers:
TOF

[TheOldFart]

TheOldFart, on Jan 7 2008, 03:35 PM, said:

Has anyone found a supply of replacement rubber booties for the control arm ball joints?

:cheers:
TOF

Maybe, hopefully, perhaps. :claps:

Waiting on a return email which should confirm it one way or the other. Will post details once confirmed.

:cheers:
TOF

[TheOldFart]

Well...have I had some fun over the last couple of weeks chasing up suspension bushes for the front and back of my A80. Thanks to Pedders at Morphett Vale for a lot of time and effort to sort out the problems.

Of the 4 main Australian sources for bushes: Toyota, Pedders, SuperPro and Nolathane, not one of them except for Toyota produce a complete set of bushes for a MkIV. Yes, you heard that right not one except for Toyota. If anyone can correct me on this and point me in the right direction then please hurry up.

My local Pedder's franchise comes close and come recommended.

My problems come down to:
1. Pedder's do not produce bushes for the front upper control arms.
2. Pedder's do not make a full set of d bushes to match all sizes of sway bars and brackets.
3. Nolathane do not produce bushes for the front upper control arms.
4. Super Pro do not produce any bushes for the rear despite claiming that they do and having part numbers listed in their catalogue.

The outcome for me:

1. Fit Pedder's bushes where I can.
2. Fit either Super Pro or Toyota bushes for the front upper control arms.
3. Scratch my head for swaybar bushes and see if the Pedder's bushes fit otherwise I'll take whatever suggestions I can.

I have managed to chase up ball joint boots from California at around $US2 ea. plus postage. I'm expecting these to appear in a couple of weeks and I'll provide details of the final outcome when I get down to fitting.

The guys at the local franchise have managed to chase up a local business willing to do full steering rack rebuilds for around $480 and the rebuild comes with a 2 year warranty. If any one is interested, PM me for details.

:cheers:
TOF

[Reaper]

Onya Tone, you sound like a regular research machine mate, you sure sound like you're on a mission.

Great info there, thanks!

Hey, here's an issue for ya - I did complete bushes as you know for up/down arms, and got new D/saddle bushes with the Whiteline sways BUT ... the ball joints for the control arms are still old knackerd POS.

How do we replace those suckers w/o going new arms from Toyo?

I presume trick is to simple oxy blow torch the old ones out and then press in new ones, but who's game to match the components while they are still on the car? ie. you almost need to take the risk to take measurements before hand, buy the presumed aftermarket ball joint part, then hope to God they'll press in?

Any ideas on this one as I'm fairly sure it's causing some of my sloppiness.

Cheers mate, love your thoroughness sir!

Cya,
GEE :claps: :cheers:

[TheOldFart]

New ball without buying new control arms. :crazy: Now wouldn't that be nice. I'll see what I can find out.

:cheers:
TOF

[Dragosani]

TheOldFart, on Jan 6 2008, 07:45 PM, said:

Bilsteins can be rebuilt but I need to price a rebuild compared to new.

Apparently a full set of brand new Bilsteins costs only ~$300 through Toyota!

See the second page of this thread on the national forums.

[Hardy]

all good this club rocks with info