[PHANTOM]

sootie23, on Aug 23 2006, 07:33 PM, said:

what manifold you got?, whered u get it from?

nothing yet, if the need is required things can be modified

[killa]

PK, on Aug 23 2006, 11:33 PM, said:

If you do it for 4 grand, you need to tell us all how you do it so cheap. I will convert to NA-T tomorrow if it is that cheap. And yes, I can do most of the labour.

PK

i agree

please keep us up to date how it all goes

id go turbo 2moro if it was that cheap

[Reaper]

I did a shirt load of research as ya do when I decided to take the jump into massive debt, errr... I mean powah! I worked out heaps of cool ways to do it eg. there is a UK kit that reuses the JDM TT header section ie. first part that actually bolts onto the head. The problem with 'economical' is :-

(yes, this is a priority ordering)

1) it often looks siht - sorry, but I hate seeing a beautiful car like the Supra with a ghetto bay
2) performance will probably be down to some degree
3) it might not last (minor concern) eg. Chinese wastegates sometimes seize due to poor manufacture techniques - damn those pesky casting dags!

As I wanted mainly to impress friends and relatives I went with the shiny option.

Cya SlowAsses (gotta live it up while I can, too many of you are catching up! :whip:)
Gav

PS- also, don't forget to spec your injectors and fuel pump/lines in accordance with what power you know you can safely run ie. with respect to internals, chosen snail etc. That's not making it onto some people's lists sometimes.

[PHANTOM]

well i just bought the scissor door hinges off of karim so funds a lil down at the moment

i want to get my current task of fitting the body kit and the whole car being sprayed.
need it ready for small car sunday. and i want to DRIVE it

but a turbo supra aint far off i believe...be it a engine swap or what ever

[Jimmy]

toyota's are good in the way of being able to pull a car down to a bare shell and it all just clip, bolt and screw back togther which makes an engine conversion a good option BUT (heres the annoying bit) you will find a turbo car has more electronic gizmos and what not that the NA wont have.

Ive been rebuilding my a70 for a while now, ive learnt alot about how hard and annoying it is to put a new engine in a car, how NOTHING will plug in ok (im actually changing the WHOLE cars wiring over) and general issues with bolts and other things messing up. Saying its a better option to do an engine conversion over a na-t kit. The engine conversion is mainly easier IF you buy a 1/2 cut as you can trace back everything you need and realise what is missing (things like random additional engine monitors etc that were under my dash dont come with a engine, ecu, loom package).

NA-T kits are expensive, they require lots of custom fabrication if you are doing it yourself and generally dont have the same build quality and each engines age etc comes into play more as to how much power it can withstand.

[sootie23]

silversoop, on Aug 24 2006, 05:34 PM, said:

nothing yet, if the need is required things can be modified

i tend to agree with jimmy, when u started this thread u sounded like you knew what it involves and had a few parts, you obviously havent done much research into NA-T, i dont mean to be rude!

youll need to make oil send and return lines, which involves drilling and removing pans etc, youll need to buy a turbo manifold, not an ebay one as it doesnt work on our cars, then when you buy this manufactued turbo manifold from overseas, youll have to custom make wastegate pipes, dump pipes, mid pipes , down pipes etc as these na-t kits are designed for LHD cars, and as you know our cars are RHD. youll then have to get a full ecu as the map sensor does not read any more boost then 3.9psi and cuts ignition fuel, if you dont have ecu, there is a way to tune the car so you can have a max of 3.9psi all the way and not get ignition cut but with 3.9psi youll be making 185rwkw, not really worth it.

youll then need to lower compression of motor which requires thicker headgasket and is a bit labor intensive, i dont think you can go na-t for under 4k regardless of your mates, unless they do work for free and you somehow manage to buy cheap parts, and if u buy generic fake hks wastegates etc will you trust this on your expensive car?

youll also have to custom make intercooler pipes as even the NA-t kits made overseas that come with intercooler packages may somewhat clash with RHD cars. its a lot of messin around and each person ive seen do an na-t in australia has always spent 10k and over, and most have used cheap and knock off parts, ie: fake copies.

do more research bud on american forums and

www.clubna-t.com

[PHANTOM]

ok i have read and taken in what u have all said and learnt stuff that i havent been able to find on other places. but i do have a lot of experience and undertanding on what is required from past cars and friends of mine have more experience in conversions and "making things work"

of course the cooler piping is a pain in the ass. hence why it is far easier to go for the proper turbo engine and not screw around with the NA one

but what was looked at first with the NA-T was:
apexi power fc, theres the computer, approx 1k
wastegate of whatever sort, approx 4-500 quality pending
a T70 turbs, for around 6-7 hundred
manifold should cost around 550 no more

total so far 2,500

cooler piping is just bent pipe ( no lecture on quality and flows required)
that can get upto quite easily about another 2k with a cooler from a workshop
oh and the head gasket...500 if u really want to...something that cxan be replaced when it finally happens 6 psi would be differnt to the stock anyway
so there goes the 4-4500 mark upto 5k

but considering that price a complete motor with gearbox, loom, ecu can all be aquired. and would be less stuffing around in the long term

i havent been able to find any front cut prices lately, and underestandably the more straight forward approach. so if anyone can help pointing me in the right direction there it would be appreciated

but a lil about me (no need to call me a lil kiddy or a noob), i am 21, qualified fitter and turner work in a fully equipped machine shop and not affraid of a challenge, friends are also in similar trades and vocations and have lots of experience in sourcing required parts and doing the work themselves. i have a trust worthy experienced mechanic who can guide the procedure if something going wrong. I have owned 2 cars with heavily customised engine bays, like a sigma with an VR4 galant engine,supra 5 speed ford 9 inch diff all contolled by a haltech and a Starion with a 2.6L, t4 turbo, magna injection and wolf 3d v4.0 comp runnig the show but my mates have had hands on experience doing transplants into older supras, putting complete differnt engines into mazdas, putting an r32 engine into a 1966 prince skyline

but as said before finances are down and after owning the car for nearly a year and spending 5 months off the road due to being scrwed around by speed dreams and other body kit suppliers. one day the conversion will take place unless there something better that comes along.

[sootie23]

fair enough, that 5k u totalled though would be a bit higher, the maqnifold will cost more than 550. but yeh if u source individual parts like that it can become cheaper, but when buying a kit, youll know it all fits together right and wont cause headaches. youll also have to get exhaust, downpipe, etc etc. but if you do the work yourself with friends your laughing as you can save a bit of money!

[Jimmy]

The manifold has to be custom built... thats on average $180 each cylinder from a good place! or 350 for a ebay version, then you will need to customise the flange (cut the one off ur stock one is fine and weld on, and also make it support a wastegate).

The turbo will be thrashed out and need new seals no doubt... that puts that to 2k.
assuming he has all the tools, he still have to put in new coolant, oils etc. not just a headgasket as he says.
there is both manifolds, rocker covers, exhaust etc
there is also the general stuff like replacing cooling pipes which isnt cheap either.

The power fc is only 1k if its 2nd hand and you are lucky enough to get one, else its around hte 1400 mark. then theres tuning!
You will find to hold your car at 6psi or whatever you WILL need to experiment abit with the wastegate spring. To hold cars at this little boost for a t70 is alittle pointless IMHO.

As I already said, it basically comes down to.... If you could build your own na-t kit for under 5k everyone would be doing it, hey i'd start my own buisness up doing it in my shed and charge 6k for it... realistically its upward of 7k.

Lets put some costs up:

Turbo - 1400 for a good 2nd hand gt35r or 2k for a rebuild t70
ecu - 1400 new or 1k if ur lucky 2nd hand (then if you go a power fc, the wiring for a turbo engine is different from the na version isnt it? will they have a function in the ecu to handle boost?)
injectors - 300 2nd hand
fmic - stocko $100, just jap $150
piping for fmic - $200
exhaust manifold - ebay $350 + $100+ for modding or import from states $600-800 or custom build here $1000
head gasket - $100
fluids $60 for coolant toyota, $75 engine oil
random gaskets $100
wastegate - $400 ebay kind, $600 good kind
tuning $300+
exhaust $400+
then will your clutch support he power? stock = doubtful
You will also need additional sensors

Who knows what else will break, what will also need replacing,

As you have stated, you have done other engine conversions... did any of those go under budget? I doubt it as I know mine is well over it now. I too have mates who claimed they will help, supply cheap parts but people are all talk, I have a toyota mechanic mate! 2 other mechanic friends, someone whos pulled most of his car to bits! It will come down to you will blow your budget, make excusses, take ages to get it done and for what? trying to save a few $$'s.

Also as discussed on the national forums it comes down to if you want a turbo car, either go all out with a engine conversion or buy a rz.

If you want more information on this all, visit the national forums as they are filled with information. Most people on here are in your situation and thinking about going NA-T BUT have mostly decided either a engine conversion or buying a proven to work kit from the states.

[RZ TT 94]

hey silversoop...

i respect the fact that you want to go turbo.. good on ya mate you will love it!
If you have the money and patience (which you will need by the bucketloads) then good luck to you.

Not meaning to put a dampener on it but have you thought of buying a stocko RZ, and returning your NA to stock and transferring all aftermarket goodies over to the RZ? ie bodykit/ in car entertainment etc?

If you are attatched to your car I guess this may not be an attractive option, however this may save you a lot of hassles in the long run.

I suggest over the next few days you read over this (disturbingly long) thread in relation to the NA-T journey from the national forums. The link is http://www.supraforu...ead.php?t=19275 hope it gives you some insight.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do, either way you go... there are 2 things that are for sure, you will spend way too much money... and way too much time. But in the end it will turn out alright.


On another note, Jimmy i dont know you nor will I be one to judge you on words typed on a screen, however it is striking how quick you are to put a dampen on other peoples aspirations/ideas/plans. You may be trying to help, trying to "save them money" however a bit of tact can go a long way. No need for the put-downs, just explain what may be some cheaper/easier alternatives and leave it at that.

Have you ever really wanted to do something to your car before, by this i mean REALLY want to do something and are excited about it? Has anyone ever shot you down mid-flight and ridiculed your plans? Not a good feeling mate.

[RZ TT 94]

since most people are too busy/lazy to scroll through 40 pages of thread I may aswell post up the important part....

Quote

OK, Scott was kind enough to give me a breakdown on everythinf done to the car, this includes parts and labour. Because I did more than what was related to the conversion (I did the 100,000km service, replaced most parts in the engine + machined the head) I'll only list down what was relevant to fitting the turbo:

Parts I supplied:

- Garrett T04B Turbo (0.6 A/R comp, 0.96 turb wheel)
- 2JZ-GE S/S Turbo Manifold
- 600 x 300 x 76 FMIC
- 3" Blitz Nur-Spec Muffler
- 3" MetalCat
- Apexi 60mm Electronic Boost Gauge w/control box
- Apexi Turbo Timer
- GReddy E-Manage Ultimate

Total: $2920

Parts/Service by Chasers:

Parts/Materials:
- stainless pipes (for intercooler)
- stainless mandrel bends
- silicon adaptors
- silicon elbows
- braided oil lines
- oil drain hose
- oil filter adaptor
- EFI hose clamps
- custom dumpipe/frontpipe

Total: $911

Labour:
- fit transmission cooler, turbo timer, boost gauge, turbo manifold, oil feed/drain lines
- modify turbo manifold, oil sump
- custom fabricate intercooler piping
- installing intercooler/piping

Total: $1584

ECU Setup/Dyno Tuning:
- install/wire-in/setup Emanage Ultimate
- Dyno tuning

Total: $1200

Extras:
- Turbo blanket
- custom 3" stainless steel catback system
- Tial 44mm wastegate
- Bosch 040 fuel pump

Total: $1719

Total amount for this conversion: $8334

There's still more where that came from! Basically if you've kept up with the thread, I also went ahead and changed the head gasket with a GReddy 1.6mm. You may not need to go down this path unless you want to, but I basically had the head machined, replaced belts, water pump, headgasket, rocket cover/camshaft/washer seals, timing belt idler bearing and accessory belt tensioner bearing.

Alot of this stuff could have been easily done by yourself to save money! But unfortunately I don't have the time to so my best bet at the time was to keep it in capable hands with the guys at Chasers.:

[sootie23]

most kits in the states come with a 2.5mm or 3mm headgasket. this guy went for a 1.6mm to make it more responsive, but would he be able to boost high?

[Yiros]

I don't understand why/how people can run 26-30psi on a 8.5:1 engine but people say you can't run 12psi on a 10:1 engine....

Makes no sense to me!

[PHANTOM]

well thank u for the detail, so i take it thats a NA turbo conversion

i believe some stuff there aint really needed but can provide a better package, turbo timer, elec. boost control

in long term tho whats 500 here or there though

one thing i am annoyed about is the fact i sold my old car with a freshly rebuilt TO4-E, chould have kept that and used a smaller one on the old car

[suprachef]

Hey ppl

Lets all face it conversions and upping boost and evrything always causes problems.

ITS CAUSE AND EFFECT PPL.

Bye screwing with 1 thing you mess up something else tust me i kno.

theres a lot of things 2 consider!!!!!

But if some one had the money 2 do it it would be an awsome project jus 2 c how much you could actually pump at wheels from an n/a 2jz engine. and with no turb lag it would be on all the time!!!!!! and if we add a wet shot of nitrous oxide to the mix well 200 rwkw doesnt sound 2 far frm it i reckon. toyota engines hav the one of the best stock bottom ends so evn with out a worked engine you could get away with a spray of nos and maybe bump it up by 30-40 kw jus depends on how well looked afta ur engine is.

with a n/a to t conversion are the ecu's the same i kno on nissans there not so im assuming that there would be a difference in the toyotas also wat about ptu's and siht like that surely that would all come into play.

A half cut might be the way 2 go???

cheers :loco:

[Stika]

I always thought......

you want a NA with lots of power......... you need to start big first.. ie a v8 and above......

a 2jz is a fantastic engine ( but ) is a 3 litre NA going to be enough in the end......

with a turbocharger you gain up to 60% off the lost power that the na would loose.... through exhaust etc


$8334 for conversion........ is alot of bread and honey......

when buying a supra a80

is it a 8k differnce in price between NA and the twin turbo?????

[PHANTOM]

Stikasupra, on Sep 13 2006, 03:15 PM, said:

when buying a supra a80

is it a 8k differnce in price between NA and the twin turbo?????

it was at the time i got mine, seemed to be about 10k differnece and most turbos were auto...


i want a front cut!

[killa]

Stikasupra, on Sep 13 2006, 02:15 PM, said:

I always thought......

you want a NA with lots of power......... you need to start big first.. ie a v8 and above......

a 2jz is a fantastic engine ( but ) is a 3 litre NA going to be enough in the end......

with a turbocharger you gain up to 60% off the lost power that the na would loose.... through exhaust etc
$8334 for conversion........ is alot of bread and honey......

when buying a supra a80

is it a 8k differnce in price between NA and the twin turbo?????

non turbo aeros a decent one are still like 20K or a bit more

i know i wouldnt sell mine for less than 20k thats for sure spesh after the work ive done to it

if i owned a hardtop NA i prolly wouldnt bother with the conversion as RZ's modded with not so many kms are like 24/25k these days

and turboing my car will be rarer still as theirs bugger all AERO turbs going around these days

not many GZ turbos were made and even less with low kms and well looked after

[Jimmy]

I was talking all arvo with matt. Basically we came to the agreement unless you totoally love your car and cant be without it, going and buying a rz is a better option. If you want to go turbo, then do an engine conversion. Because his cars a gz it makes it more appealing to put a new motor into it, as theres a few 2jz's around atm

[Yiros]

Jimmy, on Sep 13 2006, 10:59 PM, said:

I was talking all arvo with matt. Basically we came to the agreement unless you totoally love your car and cant be without it, going and buying a rz is a better option. If you want to go turbo, then do an engine conversion. Because his cars a gz it makes it more appealing to put a new motor into it, as theres a few 2jz's around atm

I thought all GZ were Aero TTs with leather and all the luxury items.

You sure he doesn't have an SZ aero?